Episode 3320

- [Announcer] On this Volunteer Gardener, Tammy Algood treats us to a tour of a large backyard garden that has undergone a change to the entire plant palette. Deer were a constant challenge, but now they walk on by this revitalized garden that features colorful and beautiful deer-resistant plants that make gardening satisfying again. Jeff Poppen spotlights the native pawpaw tree that has handsome foliage and produces large edible fruit. And April Moore shares tips on those perennials that serve pollinators, but need extra attention to keep them from taking over a garden space. Come along. First, learning the characteristics of a plant that make it unappealing to deer.

- Every year our gardens change, and our next guest had to totally change the palette of her garden from roses to items that deer don't like. Our guest today here in West Nashville is Lynne Wallman. And Lynne, honestly, looking at your garden, I would never guess that this was the scene of a garden crime.

- Well, it definitely was a disaster here. The deer moved in, and they chomped down all my roses, and hostas, and daylilies, and it just killed me. So I decided to take action and grow deer-resistant plants.

- Fantastic. And you said you had hundreds of roses and daylilies.

- I had 200.

- So this was a significant crime.

- Change. I had a lot of big holes to fill.

- Didn't you?

- Yes.

- And so what did you start with with figuring out what they don't like?

- Well, most deer don't like pungent flavored plants. They don't like plants with square stems, and they don't like plants with fuzzy leaves. So one of the first things that I started planting was hibiscus, perennial hibiscus. And I have about 25 varieties, and they are magnificent, and they filled a lot of holes very quickly.

- Well, and what I like about 'em is that not only are they magnificent to look at, which this one is the size of a dinner plate. It's beautiful, But they also shade out a lot of weeds.

- [Lynne] Yes, they do. It has survived very, very well for the last 10 years, collecting all my hibiscuses.

- [Host] Gotcha. So the perennial ones are the key, right?

- [Lynne] Yes, yes.

- [Tammy] Okay, and you've got how many different varieties?

- About 25.

- [Tammy] Wow.

- I know.

- [Tammy] Wow.

- I know.

- And with many buds to come.

- Yes, I'm going to have a big show here in a couple of weeks, so.

- Excellent. And cannas, they don't like this?

- They don't like cannas. I think it must be something about that they don't like the fragrance. This one is called apricot sunset, and it's just been blooming beautifully this year.

- And do you interplant? I mean, do you take things that maybe you want in your garden that deer do like, and then plant these things around it?

- Well, yes I do. For example, most lilies they do like, and so I've planted these hibiscus pretty closely around here, and it sort of protects 'em. I also plant garlic chives in a lot of places because-

- They smell.

- They smell. They're very pungent. So that helps protect my special ones.

- Well, I've always heard that spinners and wind chimes help eliminate them. Does that help at all, have you found, in your garden?

- Well, I did put some mirrored garlands around the garden, but I think they got habituated to it, and it didn't bother them one bit, so.

- Well, you know, it's good to know things that don't work.

- That's right.

- Right? So let's move on and see what else you've got because I see you've got the Mexican sunflower here.

- [Lynne] Yes, this is Tithonia. And notice the leaves are very fuzzy.

- [Tammy] Yes, and the stems kind are too. So they don't like the stems and the leaves. Do they bother the blooms?

- [Lynne] Not at all.

- [Tammy] Wonderful.

- [Lynne] Not at all. And Cleome, they don't care for Cleome. So it's pretty safe. I plant that around things just to make sure.

- [Tammy] Has this been kind of trial and error for you?

- [Lynne] Oh yes.

- What have we got here that's also deer-resistant?

- This Crinum, and it is a favorite pass along plant, and it does so well, and they've been blooming since probably May. And I have several clumps of them around the garden.

- And this is another weed hider.

- Yes.

- Isn't it?

- I love weed hiders.

- I do too, I do too. And come on around here and show us what else you've got here.

- Well this is Gloriosa daisy. It is a Rudbeckia. However, it has an extra chromosome. It's a tetraploid. So that's why the blooms are so wide, and the stem and the leaves are very, very fuzzy. And the deer-resistant, so that's a good thing.

- Four o'clock's, I would've never guessed this is a deer-resistant plant.

- It is, it is. They don't touch it at all. They don't like the foliage. They don't like the flowers. It has a wonderful fragrance in the morning. If I were a deer, I'd be tempted.

- [Tammy] Well, and it's a lovely plant.

- [Lynne] It is.

- [Tammy] That comes back on its own.

- [Lynne] It does.

- [Tammy] That's what I like about it.

- [Lynne] Big tubers.

- [Tammy] Yeah.

- [Lynne] Big tubers.

- [Tammy] So, and you've many colors.

- [Lynne] Yes I do. They self seed fantastically.

- [Tammy] I did not know that dahlias were deer-repellent.

- I know, they don't like them. And so last year I was fairly successful with two or three. And this year I decided to go whole hog and do about 25. And I built this dahlia corral, not to keep the deer out 'cause that's not necessary, but to keep them from falling over because they do get very tall. But I wanna show you a little trick that will help you make them branch out a little bit more.

- Okay, yeah, 'cause mine kind of look like this. So show me what we can do to make it kind of splay out a little bit better.

- [Lynne] What you do is you go to the first two leafer.

- [Tammy] Okay.

- [Lynne] And you cut that out.

- [Tammy] All right, now see, I would never do that.

- [Tammy] Well, I know it's scary.

- [Tammy] Yes.

- [Lynne] It's very scary, and you hate to do it. But it will have branches that will come out on all sides there.

- [Tammy] So it will come out back, from where you cut it off?

- [Lynne] Yes.

- [Tammy] It will splay out.

- [Lynne] Yes, it will. Now I have already cut these back, and look how many branches I have here.

- [Tammy] Wow.

- [Lynne] From just cutting it back from the center. I want more blooms.

- [Tammy] Absolutely.

- [Lynne] And I also use a wonderful fertilizer that's 10/30/20. It's a bloom booster, and it makes them have more blooms and less foliage.

- [Tammy] Gotcha. I like your color palette with your yellow garden.

- [Lynne] Well, this-

- [Tammy] Where we are.

- [Lynne] This is pretty much all yellow here. And one of my favorites has been the kniphofia, or red hot poker. But in this case it's yellow poker.

- [Tammy] Yeah.

- [Lynne] And I have noticed that if I cut it back, I have more and more blooms that come out.

- [Tammy] Okay, now when you say cut it back, you mean cut back the foliage or the bloom?

- [Lynne] The bloom.

- [Tammy] The bloom.

- [Lynne] Once it's expended, I cut it totally back. Zinnias over here. The zinnias, they don't like zinnias. And this is a trumpet plant, and it will have lots and lots of blooms that fall down. Brugmansia is the name of it.

- [Tammy] Right.

- [Lynne] A little bit later on. This is Baptisia, and this was beautiful. It's yellow. And then one of my dear friends gave me a whole row of marigolds. And they are deer-resistant.

- [Tammy] You know, I've used those in my vegetable garden, but not my flower garden.

- [Lynne] I know.

- [Tammy] Which is silly 'cause they're flowers, but.

- Well, they're very pungent, and the deer don't like 'em. So yay!

- [Tammy] We've got fuzzy.

- [Lynne] I know, this is lamb's ear. And if you'll notice, it has a square stem, and it has fuzzies. So it is double indemnity, keeping those deer away. Irises, they don't like irises either. I don't know why, but they thrive without deer intervention.

- [Tammy] Fantastic. So you're just building.

- [Lynne] Yes.

- [Tammy] On a go away zone.

- [Lynne] Yes, absolutely.

- [Tammy] Okay, so bees like this; deer don't.

- [Lynne] That's right. This is anise hyssop. And I just realized that anise hyssop is also Agastache. I didn't know that. But if you'll notice, it has a square stem, and deer do not like it. It's in the mint family.

- [Tammy] And it's very fragrant.

- Very fragrant. The bees love it. The pollinators just go wild over it.

- And you've got many pollinators here.

- Yes.

- And you've got your zinnias here.

- [Lynne] Yes.

- [Tammy] This is a deer-

- [Lynne] Resistant.

- [Tammy] Go away.

- [Lynne] Yes, they don't like it. And for some reason they don't like these coneflowers. Now some people say they have issues with coneflowers, but so far so good. I've got a pretty good crop going.

- [Tammy] And allium.

- [Lynne] Allium.

- [Tammy] Because of the smell?

- [Lynne] The smell and square stem.

- [Tammy] Amazing.

- [Lynne] So they don't like that. And they, I've got a peony back here, and they don't like peonies either. Hallelujah.

- Well, I'm just learning all kinds of things that will put up stop signs-

- I know.

- For deer.

- I know.

- And spiderwort. I've got tons of spiderwort, but I did not realize what of a value that it was.

- Yes, it in the Tradescantia family, which means it's part of the Wandering Jew family, and it has a square stem, and they just don't like it.

- [Tammy] And it comes back.

- [Lynne] Every year. Sometimes it comes back too much.

- [Tammy] Yes, it loves to spread, doesn't it? And your hydrangeas, wow.

- [Lynne] Well, this is the first year I've seen them in about 10 years. I've been faithfully spraying with Deer Away and Liquid Fence. And I have them, and it's just fantastic. I can't believe I actually have some this year.

- [Tammy] And they've left them alone even after they've started blooming.

- [Lynne] That's right. So far so good.

- Fantastic. You know, Lynne, honestly, this has been, I know, a struggle, but you've redefined your whole yard beautifully to give-

- Thank you.

- It a chance for enjoyment rather than a smorgasboard for-

- Deer.

- The wildlife.

- Well, that's true. And you know, I had a lot of holes to fill. So buy more plants.

- Well. Yeah, our mantra right?

- Our mantra.

- [Tammy] Well, thank you for educating us on some things that are beautiful.

- [Lynne] Thank you.

- [Tammy] That you can plant, and that will keep maybe the deer in somebody else's yard, right?

- [Lynne] That's right. Thank you.

- [Tammy] Thank you for having us.

- [Lynne] I enjoyed it very much.

- Walking the hollers of Middle Tennessee in late Summer, you may come across a grove of pawpaw trees. Their grace arching branches seeking sunlight create a real nice shady understory. They're a small tree. They don't get real big, and they grow underneath other trees often. The fruits of pawpaw are visible all summer long. They slowly ripen, and eventually can get the size of a baked potato. It's almost impossible to pick a fresh pawpaw. As soon as they ripen, they fall to the ground and splatter. So what we'll do is when they start to ripen, we'll come over, and we'll shake the trees a little bit. And we can just come in and do that. But it's still too early right now for them to fall off. I think coons and opossums shake the trees too. It's hard to get these. Wildlife really do love 'em. I actually like to try to catch 'em in my hands when I shake the trees. Because they fall, they're gonna bruise easily. Fortunately, a pawpaw will continue to ripen after it's picked. So we will take what we gather, and take 'em, and put 'em on a window sill or a shelf, and keep a close eye on 'em as they gradually soften up. A fully ripe pawpaw will have turned from yellow to skin start blackening. And it'll be soft. And when you bust i open, you can smell it. It's really a nice flavor, a Roman flavor to this custard like fruit. Many people have never had a pawpaw because of this elusive nature that they have of trying to catch them when they're ripe. So you're gonna have to find one yourself because they're not even available in stores. But you can plant pawpaws too. I'll come underneath here where there's the young plants growing up, and we dig them up. Now you have to be very careful when you're digging 'em because they have a long taproot that you have to get. Yeah, I don't have a lot of fine branches, but that's a young pawpaw tree ready to transplant. Generally I would do this in the Fall of the year when the leaves are off. For me the handsome foliage and shapely form are enough reason to grow a pawpaw in my front yard. This is a clump of pawpaw trees that grew up around an old apple tree. As the apple tree died, I just let the pawpaws grow up around it. The apple tree is now long gone, but this beautiful clump of pawpaws has now completely filled the space up. I feel like we're having better fruit because we have these trees together because of the way that pawpaws pollinate. So in nature there's mechanisms to prevent inbreeding. For example, many of our fruit trees need to have another fruit tree of that same variety nearby because they're not self-fertile. Pawpaws have a different way of ensuring pollination and not getting inbred. The male flowers will come out first, and then three weeks later, the female flowers might open, will open up. Or the female flowers open up, and later the male flowers open up. So one tree rarely produces any fruit by itself. This is one of the reasons why there's not a lot of pawpaws on most trees. In the Spring, I shook the trees trying to get some of the male pollen from the little anthers to shake off and fall on different fruits that had the female ovary open, which is in the center. The purple blooms are really pretty in the Spring, and it's a quite interesting flower. Some pawpaw aficionados will go to the lengths of taking a paintbrush and gathering some of the male pollen that's ripe on one tree and taking it over to a female flower that's open and ready on another tree. One of the things I love about pawpaws, besides the form, and foliage, and the fruits, is that it gets me out walking the creek lines in the late Summer. Now of course, I may get distracted by the shot trails, and oyster mushrooms, and things, other plants and things that I love to look at, but I always love finding a pawpaw tree. These low hanging fruits then are easy pickins for something that we can take home and patiently let ripen.

- You know how it is. You have a big empty space in your yard, and you wanna fill it up with plants. You probably want something that's strong, carefree, and beautiful. But those very same plants can sometimes become thugs in the garden, re-seeing too freely, spreading by their roots voraciously, or they might even do both. Now, a lot of people might call those plants invasive plants, but I prefer the term aggressive plants because a lot of them are actually native plants. Let's first talk about some of the non-native plants. This is a Japanese anemone. I like to grow them because they begin blooming in mid to late Summer and will continue right through the frost. Plus they have this attractive foliage. But they spread themselves around with underground runners. And even though that's nice in the way that it'll form colonies, and it's good if you've got a shaded area you wanna fill up. They can really be way too aggressive for your garden. And some varieties, it's important to know, are more aggressive, more likely to behave that way than others. This is definitely one of the ones that's aggressive. This is a variety called Robustissima. And that means the most robust, and it certainly is. Now, when I planted this here, I tried to corral it with edging. And that often works with things that have rhizomes or stolons that spread about. You can sink some edging in there, get it nice and deep, and it'll contain them, or at least slow them down. Well, in this case, I only used four inch edging. I should have used deeper edging, and I probably should have used a metal edging and planted it closer to the surface of the ground. In any case, even that might not have stopped this plant from jumping out and spreading all over my bed. A lot of people know that the orange, common orange daylily, the ditch lily, can actually spread aggressively from underground runners or stolons. But it's not the only daylily that can overwhelm your garden. This is its close cousin. It's a double flowering variety, Hemerocallis fulva 'Kwanso.' And this one will also spread very aggressively. Now, it is pretty. It blooms quite a few weeks later than the ditch lily. So it's nice for late season color. I think its orange blooms are beautiful, and it's ideal for mass plantings. But if you're gonna put something like this in your garden, you either need to make sure you give it a whole lot of room or go ahead and plant it, spend a whole lot of time digging it up. These are touch-me-nots, or Balsamina Impatiens. And I grew up growing these with my mother in her flower beds. I really was delighted as a child by these seed pods. They're called touch-me nots because when you touch the seed pods, they pop, and the seeds go everywhere. Well, that's the thing, the seeds get flung far and wide. So every year I spend a bunch of time pulling out hundreds of seedlings from this plant. Now, I don't mind that so much 'cause at least it's easy to do. But keep that in mind if you wanna grow it. This is a four o'clock, and they're called that because the blooms open in late afternoon, and they won't close again until the following morning. They're very fragrant, and they attract hummingbirds, butterflies, and moths. But they do throw their seeds around very freely. And when they do that, they can quickly overwhelm your whole flowerbed. Plus those thick fleshy tubers are really tough to dig out. So if that's not your cup of tea, you may wanna think twice about planting these. Now, it is possible to grow these in a container, but it would have to be a very, very large one to accommodate their huge roots. Now let's talk about a few native plants that can grow aggressively in your garden. This is Virginia spiderwort, and it's gorgeous in a woodland setting, but it spreads by seeds and by stolons. They get kind of messy looking in the Summer months. So you can cut them back to a leaf node. And then also that helps reduce the amount of seeds. Another thing you can do to help reduce their spread is to divide these mature clumps frequently. That kinda slows them down a little bit. But it is a plant that you really need to take care with. When you find seedlings, if you don't want them where they are, dig them up immediately because these mature plants, those roots are very difficult to dig out. This is cut leaf coneflower, or Rudbeckia laciniata. It really naturally loves to grow in floodplains. So the regular irrigation of a garden suits it just fine, but it re-seeds everywhere. Seeds will be thrown as far as 20 feet away, and it also spreads by aggressive rhizomes. So this is not a plant you'd want to put in a formal garden or somewhere where you have nice neat beds. It will literally double in size, this clump, from season to season. But I have found that if you put it in less than ideal conditions, somewhere really dry, that that will actually help keep the plant more compact. Unfortunately, Rudbeckia laciniata isn't the only Rudbeckia on my list. This is Black-eyed Susan, Rudbeckia hirta. And for my part in my garden, which is a little more informal, I don't find 'em overly aggressive, but they do re-seed everywhere. The good thing is about these guys, they're very easy to pull up. But I will say that I can often have two full seasons of bloom from these, because these guys will bloom in early Summer. They'll set seeds, the seedlings will come up, and bloom into late fall up to frost. But again, if you don't like pulling up a lot of volunteers, or you don't want them to spread themselves around, maybe not the right plant for you. Another Rudbeckia that would be on my list is Rudbeckia triloba, the brown-eyed Susan, a close cousin of these guys. But it's a short-lived perennial. And the problem with it is, when you let it grow on and become mature, it's much harder to pull out those roots. It is good though if you have less formal or naturalized areas in your property. This is Maximilian Sunflower, Helianthus maximiliani, and it's able to spread both by its seeds and its rhizomes very aggressively. In fact, all the native sunflowers are very aggressive spreaders. Unfortunately, I didn't know that when I planted this one here. So one thing I have learned is you can sometimes corral these a little bit by trenching in some deep edging around them, and that will slow them down. But you really do need to use a deep edging, and that'll buy you some time to deal with it and figure out where you can put it, that it won't take over your whole garden. But keep in mind, even if you do that, these will re-seed themselves outside the edging. Now, many people know that golden rods can be very aggressive in a garden setting, especially the Canada golden rod and the tall golden rod. There's about 150 species in the genus, and they will spread very aggressively from their rhizomes. But if you, they are really, really good for pollinators and for wildlife. So there are good plant to grow, but what you need to do first is do a little bit of research and find a cultivar that's less aggressive. And believe it or not, there are some. I grow Solidago rugosa 'fireworks' here, and that's actually a cultivar that was collected in the Carolinas. And it does spread, but it spreads a lot more slowly, far less aggressively than its cousins, and it gives you plenty of time to dig it up and spread it around, and it's just a really great plant. But there are others, so do a little research. Now, I don't want you to get the impression you shouldn't plant native plants. You should. They're wonderful for our pollinators. They benefit birds, insects. Everything that's natural here benefits from native plants. But if you're going to plant something new in your garden, whether it's native or not, it pays to do a little research first and figure out if it's aggressive or not.

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