Episode 3510

- [Narrator] Dividing perennials is an effective way to revitalize overcrowded plants, encourage more blooms, and gain new plants in the process. It's fall and we're in the garden with Annette Shrader to learn how to divide an assortment of plants for the best chance of success once they're replanted. Troy Marden visits a gardener who found a great alternative to grass for a shady spot of the yard. With just a little effort, a natural patch of moss filled-in nicely in just three years. With that success, he's gotten new varieties of both shade and sun moss to accent the landscape. A closed terrarium makes for a perfect miniature garden for plants that do well in high-humidity. Sheri Gramer has the right ingredients to make it work. Join us. Gaining new plants to keep or pass along.

- It's fall in our gardens. It's time to divide perennials. There are certain ones that we don't divide in the fall because they bloomed in the spring and earlier parts of the summer. Therefore, they have spent their time doing their growing and they're ready to go to sleep. But I have some that I particularly like that I can spread around in my garden. So the first one that I am going to pull out is a flock. It's a very beautiful violet color. And I have enough here that I can give away and replant others in the garden. The first thing I wanna say though, when we go to dividing perennials, we wanna be sure that we have a place for them to go as soon as you get them out of the ground. Whether you water them into a pot, you might even have a hole already dug to put them in, but time is of an essence because we don't want them to wilt. There is one little rule-of-thumb that I use when a plant wilts. I will wait until the next day when it revives itself and it's ready to put some effort. And now they're not gonna grow tops and foliage. They're gonna grow roots between now and when they emerge next spring. Now, when I start to divide this, I'm gonna lay it up here so that you can see what's gonna happen. See these good roots? We've had some good rain, but the tap roots and down underneath here is still a little dry. But ideally, before the day you want to divide your perennials or any plant, give it a good soaking. But I have had ample rainfall in the last. See, there's a little plant right there. I'm gonna pull it off and bring some roots with it. Actually, that can be put in one pot by itself. And the amendments that I like to use once that I start. See, this is the mother plant right here. And then these plants over to the side, these are some that have split-off from the original plant. When I purchased it, it probably was right there. These have grown off to the side. So I'm gonna pick it up and see what I can do. Whatever we can do that's the kindest for the plant is what we wanna do. I'm gonna divide right here. I'm gonna divide right here. I'm gonna divide right here. And see, there's a new shoot coming up that would be part of the plant for next spring right here. I was managed to work this plant and I came up with six divisions, all of which I can spread through my garden and put one back into the spot that I had chosen for it originally because of the surrounding flowers around it. This is a Itoh peony. It is a cross between a tree peony and a herbaceous peony. So what is different about this peony that it can where you see the eyes coming up from the tubers, these large tubers, you can see how the mother plant was cut apart. See how large this is? Okay. When that is done, then they ship them to us and they have eyes on them. And if we were to wash this off, we would begin to see that there are eyes in here for next spring. See that right there? That's an eye. And so when we divide our peonies up, if you want to not see a decline in the number of blooms that you have, be sure you get at least five and you can take something like this or you can take even a little saw like this, this little tree saw thing. This is good because it's short, broke the blade off. But anyway, be sure you cut that off. But let me show you what is going to also happen. Why you do not cut these back to the ground? Because it's been dry. They haven't really started, but there'll be buds. I think that's one right there. See, they sprout blooms out. Here's one right here. See, that's a bud growing on the stem. If it were herbaceous, it all comes from the bottom. I have a tree peony and right now it's doing the same thing. That's what distinguishes it from the herbaceous. It grows blooms up and down the stalks. See, we've got the whole root ball. I heard that all come out. Okay. Now, I should have done this probably previously, and I'm just gonna do it now. There are a lot of different varieties of coneflowers now, but my favorite always goes back to the pink ones. And you can get them in oranges and yellows and reds, but this is my favorite. All right. Now then, we can begin to see what's in here root-wise. We'll just start to finger it apart and already see lots of divisions here. Let's see. I think I will work outside in. And this is a rather woody stemmed plant, so. Okay, here we go. Now we're getting down to the meat of the matter. See, here's a plant. And they look fragile, but as I told you before, we should be prepared when we do this to take. Here is a plant, as you can see, here is a plant, here is a plant, here is a plant, here is a plant. And when we get in here further, see all these? See these little eyes? These are all plants. So I estimate that I'm gonna get 10 divisions out of this one coneflower. Not very difficult. Okay. Let's move on to another favorite plant. All parts of this bulb is alive and actively growing. You see it's full of moisture. And another way of propagation on these is you can pull off these little. See that right there? You can put that down in the ground, but these are yellow in color. And so I need to move these on and it won't be long until I have three to four different areas where I have a place that I'm going to take all these marvelous plants that I'm digging with you today, but do not be afraid. Now you can dig oriental lilies. They do not produce as fast as these asiatic lilies did that I put in one bulb and I might have three now. So I don't divide my oriental lilies. If I want some mower, I'll go purchase some more because they just do not multiply as fast. One of my favorite vertical plants in a garden is a Siberian iris. This one happens to be Little Caesar. It has beautiful purple blooms and it might have two to three blooms on each stalk. This iris, the same as a Japanese iris, they have a mother plant. Both of these iris start to bald out in the center. It means that you could set a pot in the middle of them and all the plants are around the perimeter of it. So it's time to dig them out. I would not divide them individually. I would take a knife or a heavy-spading fork and separate them. But so here is how this has come out. And if you see under here, there's some roots that are not good for anything. Now that was the mother root, but they have fibrous roots. Okay, here's a good example. See that old part right there? That's not any good. That was the mother. And this other one has started to grow on top of that. And that's especially true when you divide a Japanese iris. It's somewhat like if you grow gladiolas. A gladiola is a quorum and so is the rooting, the formation of how the Japanese and the Siberian iris grow. This is a seed pod. When the seed pod comes on it, see that's interest. And I even use these in flower arrangements. You see, here's an old mother plant right here. She's no good. Here's her babies up here. It's pretty simple if you got a good sharp spade and a sharp knife and somewhat of a back. No, it's not the most beautiful time of the year to invite you to my gardens, but what a pleasure to share with you what we can do to expand with friends or just make a new garden. We just remember to do it at the right time of year, water well. And one other thing I would like to say is I do add a compost, mushroom compost to amend around the freshly-planted plants that I have just dug up. And thank you for visiting in my garden.

- Whether it was the family-owned garden center that he operated for many years, his incredible native plant garden, or now moss, my friend Paul Moore jumps in with both feet anytime he does anything. And what he's done with this beautiful moss lawn in his shade garden is no exception. Well, Paul, I guess it's been about three years since we were up here and we actually featured the garden on the show.

- [Paul] Right.

- And you had just started kind of this little section of moss lawn at that point. Tell us all about your experience with moss and what sort of prompted you to do this moss lawn.

- Well, being on top of a hill like I am, the soil's very thin and every year I'd plant grass seed and by middle of summer, it was dead or dying. So I just got tired. I've tried every grass seed there was, every miracle blend that was supposed to work through in Nashville that never did.

- Every shade, the heat, the humidity and all that.

- Right. And so I just let this one section of area, there was one little patch of moss in it. So I said, "I'm not gonna do anything, just let that patch of moss grow and just see what it does." I kept the debris off of the leaves and just kept it clean.

- Right.

- And within one year, it had basically filled this area. Now it wasn't full yet, but I knew it was working.

- It was coming along.

- It was coming along and with little encouragement. So then I made the. After about two or three years, this really got nice and full. So I made the big decision to take on this larger section of lawn that was grass and turn it over into moss.

- And so that is what we're kind of walking into now. And just in two or three years time, because you were still sort of struggling with this area when we were here the last time. So just in two or three years time, it has completely turned into a moss lawn.

- A moss lawn.

- A moss lawn.

- It's worked really well and you know the thing about it, it just looks good all-year-round.

- Right.

- You know, even a slight bit of rain and it'll just pick up this iridescent green and it's just fun to watch in different environmental conditions.

- [Troy] Right.

- [Paul] The majority of this is moss that just was naturally here.

- [Troy] Right.

- Now I have over in this area an experiment going with adding some different moss. You can see the patchwork.

- Yep.

- That's a hypnum moss, hypnum curvifoleum moss and the little squares. And that little brighter green over to the right is fern moss, thuidium delicatulum. So I'm kind of adding some others to get a little variety there.

- [Troy] You actually have purchased this moss just like you would purchase plants at a nursery.

- [Paul] Exactly.

- [Troy] And it comes in these little squares like that or does it come in sheets or how do you-

- [Paul] It comes in sheets and I just kind of cut them in more of these uniform squares.

- [Troy] Right

- [Paul] And just to try to see how quickly it would spread.

- [Troy] Sort of patch it in.

- This soil is just, it's real thin again. It's this Fort Payne talcum powder-looking soil.

- Right.

- And it gets bone dry in the summer and I've exposed this moss to everything. I mean to heat, to drought.

- Yeah.

- You know, if it gets dry, it just goes dormant. The first little bit of water, it'll green right back up.

- [Troy] Right.

- [Paul] And it just, you know, it's just been a lot of enjoyment with not a lot of effort.

- [Troy] Well, you've mentioned a couple of varieties of moss that you have here, but I know that around the front of the house, you also have another little experiment going on that I would love to go and take a look at.

- [Paul] Sounds great.

- [Troy] Well, the topic of the day is moss, but I can't walk past this patch of golden seal that you have here. How old would you say that that probably is?

- [Paul] That clump's probably about four or five years old. I mean, I think it's a great substitute for hosta in the native plant garden.

- [Troy] Right.

- [Paul] And I'm really into like herbal and medicinal plants.

- [Troy] Uh-huh.

- [Paul] So it makes a great plant. The white flowers will turn into a green berry and then a bright red berry in the fall.

- [Troy] In the fall. And I can see that it's either spreading or reseeding itself around, probably a little bit of both. So it does make, after a few years, a really nice colony.

- [Paul] Right. It'll make a nice little ground cover.

- Another really nice specimen, and you have several of these in the garden, is this leather wood. This is a really cool little plant.

- Yeah, and this one's probably about 12 years old, I would say at least. 12 to 15 years old. Has yellow flowers in the spring, nice clear yellow-fall color, needs no pruning whatsoever. And the Native Americans used to make cottage out of the bark and they can make bow strings and sandals.

- [Troy] Because the bark is so tough and flexible.

- [Paul] And flexible, right.

- So out here in your front garden, you have almost like a little experimental spot, a trial garden, if you will, for mosses. So how did this part of it get started and tell us a little about your experience with these?

- Well, for me, I just got so into moss after doing the moss lawn, I wanted to just to show, as the more I learned about them, show the broad spectrum of heights and textures and color ranges, and for me just to learn about the different varieties. And so here I can really showcase them.

- [Troy] Okay. So you've got five or six different varieties in here?

- [Paul] Probably more like 10 or 12 in here at least.

- [Troy] 10 or 12, okay. But three or four that you really enjoy having here and that have done-well. So let's talk about those.

- [Paul] All right. This is one of my favorites here. This is called tree moss, Climacium Americanum, and it actually looks like a little conifer tree. If you were to pull up one, it looks just like a little conifer.

- [Troy] Oh yeah, it does.

- [Paul] Real easy.

- [Troy] Almost has little branches and-

- [Paul] Little branch, soft branches, real easy to grow. Another one that's very unique is this bartramia pomiformis or called apple moss, this really bright green color. You can see the contrast between the two.

- [Troy] Right.

- [Paul] And this one gets little sporophytes that look like little green apples, so that's why they called it apple moss.

- [Troy] Cool.

- [Paul] And another one of my favorites, which I use to patch in on the lawn over on the other side is this hypnum curvifoleum moss. It's a type of sheet moss, and it's already starting to kind of grow up on these rocks here.

- [Troy] Right.

- [Paul] It does really well.

- [Troy] And it's almost, if you look really closely, almost has a little fern-like leaf to it.

- [Paul] It does. And the other common name is brocade moss. If you look very closely, it looks like brocade.

- [Troy] Yeah, it's beautiful.

- [Paul] This is one I really enjoy here. The common name, one of the common names is worm moss, but it's actually Bryoandersonii illacebra. It's a mouthful, but it look like little worms. Very easy to grow, and this one's actually growing on a rock.

- [Troy] So they grow in such a wide variety of places. We've seen it in the lawn. We've seen them on rocks. I know there are mosses. I think we typically think of mosses that love shady and damp spots, but there are mosses that grow dry and in the sun. Tell me about the maintenance that they require.

- Well, the maintenance is really a lot less than I though it was going to be when I started. Moss doesn't require any fertilizer. You don't have to mow it, so it just stays green year-round. I do manually weed it. From that standpoint, it's a little more labor-intensive, but with the lawn, you've got to cut grass, you've got to do leaves, you've got the maintenance on the mower, you've got the noise.

- [Troy] Sure.

- [Paul] And for the effort I put in it, it really rewards me year-round.

- [Troy] So the moss really fits into the garden as one piece of a bigger philosophy.

- Right. Well, I think one thing for sure is you really have to be patient with a garden like this.

- Right.

- I mean, I want it to look as natural as possible, and so I plant a space plants where they're allowed to kind of retain their natural shape. I give plants room to grow. I let them just kind of strike their own balance. And for me, this is basically a springtime garden.

- Sure.

- And that's when I enjoy gardening because face it, summer gardening in Nashville is brutal.

- [Troy] It's brutal sometimes. It is.

- [Paul] And I don't use any chemicals. I use organic fertilizers and just when I wanna feed, and that way it keeps it low-maintenance. And again, this is a collection garden where I can really learn about all the native plants, as many as I can possibly grow, and just to know them.

- Well, with all that you have learned about moss, I know that there have to be some good resources out there, but probably not very many of them. So you have three favorites here.

- [Paul] My ultimate favorite is "The Magical World of Moss Gardening" by Annie Martin.

- [Troy] Right.

- And it's a real how-to for people just how to garden with moss, and there's just not many resources like that. And it's just an excellent resource. I highly-recommend this one.

- Okay. And then the other two maybe are a little more scientific in nature or-

- Well, this one's actually written by Robin Wall Kimmerer. And what I love about it is she's a Native American, and she's also a biologist.

- Okay.

- So she weaves those two disciplines in just a beautifully written book.

- And then an ID source.

- And just a great ID source. This is a relatively new one, "The Common Mosses of the Northeast and Appalachians." Great book.

- Now, what about sources for moss? Do you collect or do you not collect?

- Well, you don't wanna collect from the wild. I mean, I'll move like from my own moss. I've moved some from my property in a couple of spots. But if you don't have that resource, then Annie Martin has a mossery. They call it a mossery, and it's mountainmoss.com, and that's where I bought most of the moss for this area.

- Most of the types that you have.

- Right.

- So there are some resources out there, not very many, but the ones that there, and certainly Annie's, I follow her on Facebook and some other places, and it's a whole lot of fun to watch what's going on. And if you're into moss at all, I think she's sort of the queen of it all right now.

- Yes, she is. And it's important to know that she doesn't wild collect.

- Right.

- She'll go in ahead of where they're gonna bulldozer.

- A bulldozer.

- Right. And rescue moss. She might even get it off a roof of a house, but that's how she gets it. And she propagates it as well.

- At the mossery. At the moss nursery.

- That's right. The moss nursery.

- Thank you so much for taking some time to be with us today.

- Well Troy, thank you so much. And I have to gift you with an official Moss Man "Defender in the Environment" T-shirt. Awesome. I love it. Can't wait to wear it. This will be perfect to have out and about and in the garden.

- [Paul] All right. Sounds good.

- [Troy] Thanks.

- [Paul] Thanks, Troy.

- [Sheri] Terrariums have been around for a long time, many years. In fact, they're coming back into vogue again. We have a whole new group of people that are interested in making terrariums, and we're gonna visit with Lindsey today, and she's gonna show us the ins and outs of terrarium building.

- So there's several different ways to build a terrarium. The way we do them in the store is with sand, gravel, and soil. You can pretty much build a terrarium in any type of vessel that has a lid. For it to be a self-contained ecosystem, it has to have a lid. Therefore, it keeps its oxygen in its inside and creates rain for itself.

- [Sheri] So what's it called if it doesn't have a lid? A dish container?

- [Lindsey] A dish garden.

- [Sheri] Okay.

- [Lindsey] Yeah.

- [Sheri] A dish garden.

- And those just have to be watered weekly like every other house plant. You can typically build yours with gravel first or sand first. My sand is a little bit finer right now, so I'm gonna do sand so that I get to see the different levels within my terrarium, making it aesthetically-pleasing.

- So the purpose of the sand and the gravel is really just to keep it drained well then?

- Yes.

- Okay.

- Basically acting like the layers of the Earth.

- And some people use charcoal and you choose not to?

- Yes. The only reason you would use charcoal is to keep the skunkiness out of your terrarium. And initially, when we build our terrariums, we only water them in the beginning and they're good for six to eight months. So the only reason you would use the charcoal is if you weren't taking care of it correctly because it

- And it was over-watered.

- Yes, it was over-watered and you get a skunky smell.

- Okay.

- So therefore, that is what the charcoal does.

- [Sheri] Just good quality potting-soil?

- Yep. This is just Miracle-Gro. It's got a little bit of fertilizer in it. It's just basic house plant. So after you get your layers. So one of the rules-of-thumb is when you're building a terrarium is you choose plants based on your size, because your plants do not want to touch the sides, because that's where the moisture rolls down the glass. And when the moisture rolls down the glass, if the leaf is touching the glass, it will take in mold and go all the way to the plant.

- [Sheri] So as the plant material grows in there, if it starts touching the sides, you can go in there with a pair of scissors and trim it off the sides, I assume.

- [Lindsey] Yeah.

- [Sheri] Okay.

- [Lindsey] By just giving it a little haircut.

- [Sheri] Okay.

- [Lindsey] So that is a little button fern, and this is a plumosa fern. These two thrive off lots of humidity, so they're perfect in a terrarium.

- [Sheri] So it's important to, as you're saying, to pick plants that thrive well with high-humidity.

- [Lindsey] Correct. So there's the two plants.

- [Sheri] I love that plumosa. That's one of my favorites.

- I know. They're so dainty and pretty.

- Anything special about the moss?

- [Lindsey] This moss was foraged from the Tennessee River. It's just your everyday moss. You find it in the funnest places when you're going on hikes. So you just place it in there like so.

- [Sheri] So sometimes, you might get a snail or a little bit of bug.

- So yeah, sometimes you will get fun friends in there. Snails are really fun to watch, but just be careful to watch them closely because that's a really expensive snack for them. You could wake up one morning and then all your plants be gone. So now that we put the moss, sometimes it's really fun to come back and grab some gravel.

- [Sheri] So you could put in beach glass, driftwood, anything that good.

- [Lindsey] Oh, yes. I've done some terrariums with little girls and we used the. Instead of doing natural stone, we did aquarium stone, which was bright pink, and that just gives it a different look.

- And you're gonna put a cute little mushroom in there-

- Yep.

- I'm guessing?

- We can always accessorize anything. So we are going to add the little mushroom.

- [Sheri] Lindsey, I'm curious, what sizes do you use? Any size?

- [Lindsey] I mean, you could go big to go home or you can go super small. I've done little tiny cloches with one tiny fern or even just moss with a little-

- [Sheri] Always glass?

- [Lindsey] Always glass, yes. Plastic doesn't give the effect that it needs to keep the oxygen in and therefore, make it rain on itself, creating the ecosystem.

- [Sheri] Okay, great. All right. Well, thank you for sharing, Lindsey.

- [Lindsey] Awesome. Thank you.

- [Narrator] For inspiring garden tours, growing tips and garden projects, visit our website at volunteergardener.org and find us on these platforms.