Episode 2746

- [Narrator] Behind every Pick Tennessee Products logo is a real Tennessee farmer. Pick Tennessee Products has helped people find those local farmers, food and fun for over thirty years.

- Conifers come in four established sizes. From miniature to large. Troy Martin sees how these beauties add year round interest, texture and shape in his gardening buddy's home landscape. Jeff Poppen shares ideas about dealing with the presence of Bermuda grass and Tammy Algood visits a You-Pick berry farm in Trousdale County. Join us. First, conifers come in different colors, forms and growth rates.

- My friend, Paul Schneider's garden in Portland, Tennessee, is a botanical wonderland and today we're going to learn about conifers for Tennessee. Paul, you have quite a collection of conifers but lets start right here with this one.

- Alright, what we've got here, Troy, is Thujopsis dolabrata 'Hondai', Hondai being the cultivar. It's also known in a sort of colloquial form as Hiba. H-I-B-A. Hiba false cedar, it's Asian. It looks like Arborvitae fern and it has this wonderful silver coloration behind the needles. I hope you can see that.

- [Troy] Yeah, it's really silvery white

- [Paul] Very silvery white on the backside. The nice thing about it is, I've grown this one for, I would say eight or nine years here, it's seven feet-ish or so at this juncture. Nice, bushy, bushy

- [Troy] Pyramidal shape

- [Paul] Pyramidal shape. And zero pests, nothing has trouble, I have all different cultivars of Thujopsis and we'll see another one later in the garden but this is the green form and a tree-like form. Nothing seems to bother it. No caterpillars, no midges, no this, no that or the other thing.

- [Troy] And the deer don't browse it

- [Paul] The deer do not browse it.

- [Troy] Whereas with some the Arborvitae, especially the old emerald Arborvitae of the trade, they love.

- No cones evident yet on all the ones that I have but who needs them? I mean just look at the beauty of this tree.

- Right.

- It's just an awesome tree. This plant is probably, I'd say eight to 10 years old. They're not fast growers but very dense and unlike a lot of the Chamaecyparis obtusa, the insides don't turn brown as readily as some of them do.

- [Troy] Sure.

- [Paul] This has been a really, really nice grower for me. One of the things conifer society folks like to work with is dwarfs and smaller plants because they mix so many, you can do so many in a decent sized bed.

- Exactly.

- Okay.

- [Troy] You said this is slow growing, you know, it's eight to 10 years old, it's only 30 inches or so tall.

- [Paul] Yep, yeah.

- [Troy] So, it's grown a couple of inches a year probably.

- [Paul] Oh sure.

- [Troy] But that doesn't necessarily mean that it's dwarf.

- [Paul] No.

- [Troy] Over a period of time, they can grow, some of them,

- [Paul] Yes.

- [Troy] can grow quite large and I think there's an important distinction there. You know, in some of the conifers, where we think of them as being dwarf.

- Right.

- When they're not necessarily. You also have this mix of what you're able to readily find in garden centers.

- [Paul] Right.

- [Troy] Which are things like the gold mop Chamaecyparis Pisifera which a lot of people say is a compact or small growing thing but I have one in my garden right now that's 12 feet tall that I limbed up to a multi-trunk form because it was taking up too much valuable real estate.

- Exactly.

- So, I think there is a little bit of a misnomer in the trade out there.

- Of course.

- Where they assume that these things are all going to stay small.

- The biggest case in point is Mugo, Pinus Mugo.

- Yes.

- Which if it isn't pumilio but everyone thinks Pinus Mugo is going to be dwarf. Pinus Mugo can get eight, nine, 10 feet across and as high.

- And as high.

- Okay, and I've got Pinus Mugo called Paul's Dwarf which I'd had to have, of course, with my first name.

- Right.

- And it's 10 or 12 years old and it's probably, you know, 18 to 24 inches.

- Sure.

- It's a real miniature.

- Right.

- But one of things that I have to say, people don't understand the importance of conifer or not conifer, particularly, but plant associations. Like the American Conifer Society, where the Southeast chapter is one of the fastest growing Conifer chapters in North America. For years, no one thought you could grow all these wonderful conifers in the South. We have, at our annual meeting, an auction, a silent auction. The last one we had was up here in Bowling Green. We had between three and four hundred plants all around the banquet room that you could bid on.

- Right.

- And, they come from nurseries that specialize in things that conifer lovers want. Basically, varieties, cultivars that you can't get at the Big-Box stores and the average nursery doesn't have. So, associations are very important for plant collectors and developing a really good garden.

- [Troy] Well, we've got an interesting combination of conifers right here, Paul. Tell me about these two.

- Okay, well the big one is Thuja occidentalis which is our Eastern arborvitae but it's a yellow cultivar called Malonyana. Malonyana. I bought this, it's probably been here, I would guess, close to 10 years but fairly fast growing. As you can see, this is now, what, 15 feet, Troy?

- Yeah.

- Something there abouts. And I love it for the yellow. The contrast I get with this blue spruce which down here, at the bottom.

- It's more of the Pendula spruce Picea pungens Pendula. But this guy, is a Cryptomeria. Cryptomeria japonica and it is Elegans Nana and when folks come in for garden tours, they always say, oh wow, that is such a beautiful small shrub. It's probably going to get about yea high, another foot or so, I would guess. It's a chubby little guy but it goes so good against the gold of the Thuja. And it's funny, as I look at this, I look here, look what we have here.

- [Troy] A little bird's nest.

- [Paul] We got a bird's nest. I didn't even know that one was in there. Sorry, birdy. No eggs in there. This is another Cryptomeria, we just looked at one next to the big golden Thuja. This is a true dwarf, okay?

- [Troy] Right.

- [Paul] It's Cryptomeria japonica Tenzan. T-E-N-Z-A-N. It's a Japanese cultivar. It is now in one of the shade garden areas where it gets dapple shade. But for years and years, I had it in full sun in one of my Hypertufa troughs. It is, I would say, eight, nine inches at its top height. And a foot or so in diameter. Very, very, very slow and very, very dense. And once again, just goes to show that you can get all sorts of crazy cultivars from some species of plants. Not all plants throw the sports in the cultivars but Cryptomeria japonica, there are literally, I would say, fifty, sixty or maybe even way more than that in the trade. From these little guys, to big ones, and they're just an awesome plant for the South. I have no trouble, and I probably have fifteen different cultivars and they're just an awesome plant that everyone should be considering some Cryptomerias in their garden. Okay, Troy, this is another Thujopsis. It's also dolabrata but its called Latifolia. It's a much smaller than the one we just did. It also has the same characteristic silver under the needles and looks like an Arborvitae fern but for a smaller garden that didn't want the Hondai. The bigger, more columnar and triangular one. This is a nice little shrubby Thujopsis and once again, have had absolutely zero problem with any sort of pestiferous or browning out or anything like that. Troy, while we're on Thujopsis, I have to give you a little bit of story on this one. This is Thujopsis dolabrata Aurea, as in gold.

- [Troy] Right

- [Paul] But once again, underneath, we've got that wonderful silvery color on the needles. Looks like an Arbovrite fern, but this one, all the new foliage for the whole summer for this year will all be golden.

- [Troy] Will be golden, yeah.

- [Paul] And it will eventually fade to green until next year comes back again. Once again, Thujopsis hiba false Cedar form Aurea, as in gold.

- [Troy] Well, Paul, we've been talking a little bit about Cryptomeria and we looked at one called Tenzan that was only about 10 inches by 10 inches and this is a more full sized specimen. Shall we say?

- Yeah.

- Which one is this?

- Okay, this is Cryptomeria japonica. Once again, Crypotemeria japonica. And this one is called Pouakai. P-O-U-A-K-A-I. It's a word from the Maori language, the indigenous folks of New Zealand and it came out of Cedar Lodge Nursery in New Zealand several years back. I got this at the American Conifer Society meeting in Louisville, Kentucky. I would say eight or so years ago in a three gallon pot and you can see the size of it now. It's an absolutely gorgeous, back borderline tree. Great windbreak tree. In fact, in New Zealand, they put rows of these in to break the winds from going into people's gardens.

- Sure.

- I have gotten, actually, viable seed from this tree and I've also been able to root a few from cuttings but for the average home owner, its going to be a big tree. But look at the shape of it and look at the majesty of it, okay. And once again, Crypotmeria in the South have virtually no issues that I have found. So, it's a perfect tree if you have a big property or a nice big garden that you want a nice big evergreen tree. Looks as good in the winter as it does in the summer. Branches don't break with ice storms, snow or whatever. It's a good all around tree.

- [Troy] Paul, I don't think a segment about your conifer collection would be complete without featuring this spectacular specimen of Juniperus rigida.

- [Paul] Right.

- [Troy] And this is one people probably aren't going to find just everywhere but how did you come by this and get it grow in such a spectacular way?

- Okay, well, the common name for it is the Japanese Temple juniper and years ago when I was in the American Bamboo Society, we use to have our annual meetings in Savannah, Georgia. Which meant I had to drive from here through Georgia and I found a nursery, a small nursery run by Jim and Debby Rogers called 'Nearly Native Nursery' and I bought from them a Magnolia ashei and a small Juniperus rigida which I had never seen before and I was just getting hooked on Junipers cause generally speaking, they're one of the cheaper conifers that you can buy. And little did I, I love the form of it, it was small. It was in a three gallon pot and you can see what it's become. It's probably the prize right now in the conifer collection.

- [Troy] Absolutely.

- [Paul] I have in, all the years it's been here, which is over 10 now, I have gotten one seedling from it that I'm holding under lock and key because I just think it's probably one of the best big yard trees that a person could have in the South. Once again, no problem with any sort of critters and it's called rigida because of the stiffness of the needles. This is one that my late wife simply refused to weed under because the needles are like needles.

- Yes.

- The form is obviously flowing but it's the needles that give it the name rigida. So, there it is, it's just about ready to start blooming right now in this branch.

- [Troy] Well, it is always, always a pleasure to walk the garden with you and learn about all of these incredible plants that you have. And we thank you so much.

- Oh, it's my pleasure, anytime. Good to see you.

- [Interviewer] I'm just wondering how many of you would recognize this plant? Tina, what is it?

- This is American Columbo, also known as green gentian. It doesn't grow in every county in Tennessee, I just happen to be fortunate to have an overabundance of it here on my property in Indian Mound Stewart County and my husband and I just love it because it's so unique.

- [Interviewer] Yes, well and I see some very distinguished things about it. It has five leaves that are radiating opposites like a star. This is just fascinating to me.

- [Tina] This is a monocarp, it blooms only one time. There's not a lot of research on it that I found but anywhere from like, 15 to 23 years, it will bloom and then it will die just like the century plant, the Aloe plant.

- [Interviewer] Yeah

- [Tina] And then the seed pods, once the flowers have completely gone by, it will look kind of like a Yucca stalk and when the seed stalk comes in contact with the ground and is completely saturated for a certain amount of time then the seeds will germinate and carry on the process and we have a few around that haven't bloomed yet. A lot of people think they look just like Hostas. These plants will all go dormant within another month.

- Oh, so it's like a lot of the Spring things that they.

- It's a Spring ephemeral and it's also native to Tennessee and the Southeast. Next Spring, come February, will sprout up, it looks just like a Yucca coming up actually. A lot of people don't know American columbo because, number one, it's not everywhere in Tennessee and number two, it doesn't have any major culinary or medicinal purposes in the plant world.

- [Interviewer] And where else, besides Tennessee, would it grow?

- [Tina] In Kentucky, I've seen it at Udel gardens, a little more frequently up in Kentucky.

- [Interviewer] Well, you're just very blessed.

- [Tina] I am.

- [Interviewer] Thank you very much.

- Bermuda grass is a highly invasive grass that originated in Africa. It's a popular grass for lawns and pastures. It's mostly grown in the Southeast and the Southwestern portions of the United States. People like it in their lawns because it can stay green during the Summer when all the other grasses would turn brown in a drought. But it can be extremely troublesome for gardeners. In fact, one of the common names for Bermuda grass is Devil's grass. It produces in three ways. By seed, by above ground, vine like shoots called stolons and by below ground shoots called rhizomes. Digging some up reveals the wiry roots that want to creep into your garden. These roots, will just go right into your garden from a grassy area. And mulching does not work with Bermuda grass and these roots and stones, rhizomes and what-not will just grow right underneath the mulch and then come up somewhere where it's not real thick. So, I've never had any luck mulching to get rid of Bermuda grass. Now if you hold Bermuda grass and chop it up into little pieces, each one of those can grow and make a new plant. Every time there's a node, there's roots that come out which will sprout and make a new plant so it's better to dig it out with a fork where you can go and follow the roots as far along as you can and try to get to the very end of the roots. See that? And then you can get these and keep them out of your garden. Here's a pile of saw dust near where some Bermuda grass was and you can see that mulching with the saw dust there has not done any good whatsoever to the Bermuda grass. Just creeps right underneath it and mulching has never worked for Bermuda grass. The key, is that Bermuda grass is low growing and is killed by frost. So, to get rid of Bermuda grass, really, all you have to do, is nothing and just let other things grow up, it will smother out. So, when we're starting a new garden, and we have Bermuda grass there, if possible, we would let it grow up for a year in other grasses that will really help get rid of the Bermuda grass. But then we would plough it in the Fall, when the Bermuda grass isn't growing and expose those wiry roots to the Winter's freezing. That'll kill them and then we just have to keep dragging these wiry roots out of the field and then the next Summer, about the middle of May when Bermuda grass wants to start growing, we sow it into really thick, rank growing crops. Like black-eyed peas and other cowpeas, or Sudan grass or even sunflowers and Mexican sunflowers and anything that grows up tall and makes a lot of shade during the Summer months when the Bermuda grass is wanting to grow. We want to shade it out. Here's a spot where we have Bermuda grass next to a garden and we're planting a few rows of flowers in between so that it's really shaded with the bushy zinnias and cosmos, marigolds, things of that nature. And that'll shade out that area for about three feet wide and that keeps the Bermuda grass roots from climbing through and getting into the garden. This is a field of mustard right now. Although troublesome in the garden, Bermuda grass makes great feed for the cows. So we like it to be in our pastures. Letting your lawns grow up is good for the soil, you'll invite in some more of the clumping grasses that are easier to garden around. Unfortunately, there's laws in towns that say you have to keep your grass under a foot tall and this does promote Bermuda grass. If you keep mowing it, you'll just get these creeping grasses that are really hard to garden around. Let your lawn grow up, much healthier.

- [Tammy] So we're here at Kelley's Berry Farm and right now, Jon, we're in the middle of strawberry season.

- The season's a little early this year, about two weeks early. We started, I believe, about the 20th of April. So, about the last of April throughout May, we should have plenty of strawberries.

- Obviously, you've still got bloom plants blooming,

- [Jon] Yes, we do.

- [Tammy] and producing, so, hopefully,

- [Jon] That's right, the blooms are probably three weeks away from being berries.

- [Tammy] Got it, got it. So you've got blooms and berries that are ripe, all in the same plant which is fun. Obviously, you grow on plastic and tell us why you do that.

- [Jon] The plastic, they keep the weeds down and it warms up in the winters, keeps the plants, you know, they start out earlier on the plastic.

- [Tammy] Very good. And you got grass here in your rows, and the reason for that is, why?

- [Jon] Well, the grass, in the winter time, that keeps the rows down from, you know, the dirt washing away and then we'll come back and kill the grass and it'll be a good firm walkway.

- [Tammy] Very good.

- [Jon] For people to pick in, not be muddy.

- [Tammy] And what's this variety?

- [Jon] This variety is camareo and I've got, most of them are chandlers but this is a new variety we've tried and it does pretty good. And you start with brand new plants every year.

- [Jon] Yes, we do.

- [Tammy] And the reason for that is, it just produces better?

- [Jon] It produces a whole lot better, plus they get diseased if you try to go two years and that's not very good, don't produce much.

- [Tammy] Got it. So the main thing is that if it's not completely red, so this ones not ready yet.

- [Jon] Yeah, that ones not quite, one more day that'll be ready.

- [Tammy] But this one is getting close, not quite there. But you want to make sure it's all red from the bottom, all the way to the top.

- [Jon] To the shoulders, that's right. There's one that's pretty much perfect.

- [ Tammy] Absolutely.

- [Jon] They pull off easier when they're completely red.

- [Tammy] And you don't mind people eating while they pick?

- I've got plenty, you can eat it, sample what you get and maybe that'll get you wanting more.

- [Tammy] And all of this is either you pick or already picked.

- [Jon] That's right.

- [Tammy] The fun thing is, because the weather is so nice in the spring, is for everybody to come out and pick at the farm.

- [Jon] Yeah, it is. The strawberries, it's cooler and it's easier picking on the strawberries. The blueberries and the blackberries are in June and July and it's a little bit warmer but it's still fun. Most people come early in the morning where it's cool.

- [Tammy] So, we're standing in the middle of a hundred thousand strawberry plants and as much of a shame as this is, lets walk over and see the blueberries.

- [Jon] Sounds good.

- [Tammy] Here we are in your blueberries and I'm not quite sure that I've ever seen plants with so many blueberries on them.

- It's gonna be above the crop this year.

- Yes, what's this variety?

- They're rabbiteye is the kind and the variety, these are Climax. We got Climax and Tifblue.

- Okay, and look at this, this is beautiful because here's the little blooms.

- [Jon] Yeah. That, two, three weeks, well, about a month ago, they were just solid blooms from there to there.

- [Tammy] They had to be. And then, here, of course,

- [Jon] Is the berry.

- [Tammy] are the berries that are coming along. So, these are probably about, how far away?

- [Jon] They're probably about three weeks away at least, maybe four.

- [Tammy] Wow, and these are, you know, I think that blueberries are the easiest thing to pick.

- [Jon] They really are. They don't all get ripe at once but if just kind of use,

- [Tammy] Tickle them.

- [Jon] Use your fingers, tickle them, the blue ones, the ripe ones will come off.

- [Tammy] Exactly, so I always position my bucket underneath and then just tickle the ones and they just fall off.

- [Jon] Yeah. If you just kind of rub your thumb over the blue ones, they'll fall in your hand and you can put them in your bucket.

- Exactly.

- So, a lot of people put the bucket around their belt and then you can use both hands to kinda.

- [Tammy] Ah, gotcha. And then just put them in your,

- [Jon] That's right, put them in your bucket.

- [Tammy] So these, any special care for somebody that wants to grow blueberries themselves?

- [Jon] Blueberries are kinda finicky, they're a little hard to grow. You gotta get the Ph right. It takes like, three or four years before they get to producing fruit.

- [Tammy] So how old are these plants?

- [Jon] These plants are about, six or seven years old.

- [Tammy] Yes, so that's why they're so loaded and,

- [Jon] They're loaded, they're prime time.

- [Tammy] Any particular soil that they like?

- [Jon] They like the Ph low which means it's acid, the soil is more acid

- [Tammy] Okay, got it and it needs to be real fertile ground. It won't grow in clay or rocky ground. Too good.

- [Tammy] So, you've got yours pretty close together here.

- [Jon] They're about four feet apart. Four, five feet.

- [Tammy] Well, this is just beautiful and I'm telling you, this is going to be the place for blueberries. You're the largest blueberry grower in Tennessee.

- [Jon] I think so, we got over 15,000 plants.

- [Tammy] That's a lot of blueberries.

- [Jon] A lot of blueberries.

- [Tammy] These blackberries are absolutely beautiful in bloom. So, you've got blooms here and then the berries are starting right there. And that's just, again, probably about what?

- [Jon] That's probably three weeks away, probably three weeks, maybe four.

- [Tammy] And these have no thorns, so you don't have to worry about that while you're picking. And what's this variety?

- [Jon] I believe this is Arapaho.

- [Tammy] I love it.

- [Jon] Arapaho are an early variety, thornless.

- [Tammy] And you've got heaps of bee activity here, obviously, the bees are having a good time. What's your season for blackberries?

- [Jon] Well, we got two, three different varieties and each variety goes for like, two or three weeks. They won't all get ripe at once, but for a week, the first week, they kinda get started and the second week, it's real heavy and then the third week, it'll be kind of winding down. And then another variety will kick in after that.

- [Tammy] And again, these are easy to pick because basically, they just separate really easily from the plant.

- They are, when they're ripe, dark black. They're green when they're developing, then they turn red, then they turn black.

- Got it.

- So the darker, you know, you want them jet black.

- So, if they're not black, don't pick them

- No, don't pick them, they're not going to be sweet. When they're completely black, that's when they're the sweetest.

- [Tammy] So don't short change yourself when it comes to berries. Come straight to the farm, pick them right off the plant, and you'll find that they're full of nutrients and delicious as well. So you know your farmer, you know where they're coming from and in no time flat, you got a bucket full of berries that are ready to use as soon as you pick them. For inspiring garden tours, growing tips and garden projects, visit our website at volunteergardener.org or on YouTube at the Volunteer Gardener channel and like us on Facebook.

- [Narrator] Behind every Pick Tennessee Products logo is a real Tennessee farmer. Pick Tennessee Products has helped people find those local farmers, food and fun for over thirty years.